Hey guys

Great feedback in this thread. I'm taking a few notes and getting a few ideas.

One thing we might be able to do very easily is remove the faction NPCs, letting you freely travel in other factions space. How would you guys feel about that change? I've always found it a bit sad that we've isolated FW in low-sec when it could be done on a much larger scale.

My problem with allowing alliances into FW has nothing to do with the uber blobs (we all know thats what it would become) my problem is with the income aspect of it. FW remains one of the best ways to make isk in this game short of being a tycoon. Caldari already has a problem with corps that are there solely for farming missions (including a number of well known alt corps for the bigger alliances). This can easily be seen by the price of Navy Scorps and Scorpians in recent months... Once news about the impending fix to FW was released Navy scorp prices dove 20 to 30 mil and scorpian prices jumped 10 mil, there where even a few times in Jita where there seriously was not a single scorpian for sale... I say if you really wanna fix FW create a mechanic that would kick out the carbears... On paper Caldari milita out numers the other militas by 2k members... in practice we are probably one of the smallest of the militias...

Allowing more people into FW would kill the market far more than it already has esp[ecially since the ships that FW provides are hardly ever used in combat (navy scorps and ravens) in fact the only faction ships seen regularly in FW are the faction frigates, their needs to be a new ship that can be priced just right so that its expensive enough to make isk but low enough that you dont kill your KB every time you loose one, i think Faction BC's would really fill that void since most of our fleets are BC fleets anyways.


P.S. sorry if what i said has already been said.... too many pages to read everything :)

Attn CCP: Treating pirate faction ships as T2 ships for plex entrance requirements will do more for FW than anything else you implement because it will make T1 frigs and T1 cruisers (the ships newer players fly) viable in minor and medium plexes. Help ease the transition of younger players into FW!

No. This will just ruin things. If you take sov, everyone will be flying your ships (offensive or defensive) and when you lose it the other race's ships will be used. This will REMOVE variation to the pvp...

It should be mentioned that Faction Warfare was the first and primary thing mentioned as an example by Soundwave in his recent Mintchip interview.

At Factional Warfare's initial release; it will contain everything that will make factional warfare a complete system that will hopefully be a lot of fun to play. But this is only the beginning, Factional Warfare will undergo constant revision, with releases being added to it periodically, as we study and observe and see how we can improve and expand it.

OOrrrah!!

Very well put, this sums up my feelings exactly. What we have here is a clear case of a group of individuals who don't understand us, representing us.

Is Faction Warfare a sinking hole? Depends on how you look at it. Every day I can undock and get some fun kills, I hate to use words like that to describe it. Is it headed somewhere we don't want to go? Not if we keep fighting. I'm not giving this up, I hope you all stick with me here until we see this thing to the bitter end. Like I said - these talks are just the beginning. We still have an opportunity to keep pushing harder, and higher up the chain to get our voices heard.

I am no way acquiescing to the vision of FW portrayed by the summit notes, but I still am partially pleased by the very fact we've gotten the conversation pushed this far. I just want to remind everyone a year ago we had CCP stand us up at our own fanfest circle, now we're the topic of private talks between the CSM and the lead game designer.

Have we elevated Faction Warfare in terms of visibility? Absolutely. Have we gotten their attention back on to one of the games most broken features? Absolutely. Are they actually going to dig into the code this summer and make some improvements? I personally believe so.

Are they completely in touch with the community's own wishes for the feature? Absoutely not.

The last part is the hardest, but it is still achievable. What I urge everyone in here to remember is this - We have a dying "feature", but a living community. CCP still doesn't see the latter, because one of our own isn't in those talks yet. I believe that will change.

In the meantime - we face a force of attrition. Many of you are weary from the forum warrioring, your energies are running out, patience is razor thin, and the notes are (rightfully so) only hurting morale. But this isn't over until we see patch notes containing it all - whether its OUR list, or THEIR list.

I can't tell you what having you all in here working to keep this thread bumped, active, and filled with excellent ideas has meant to me. Your tenacity is why I love and respect Faction Warfare pilots so dearly, everyone here wants to FIGHT, and you've taken that to defend the feature itself, not just your factions.

I started this thread three months ago - it is now 42 pages long and one of the most active threads in the forum. YOUR dedication is the only reason I believe that we even have CSM summit notes to complain about right now. I think we've already changed minds at the top, even if we haven't turned the heads far enough.

We will lose more players to apathy, hopelessness, anger, frustration, and disappointment, before Faction Warfare is finally overhauled. I hope we can all try to stay constructive, keep speaking up - because if its only a dozen of us in here, our words become the complaints of a bitter few, not the demands of the many. Bring your friends into the thread - we need more input, more voices standing together - to counteract those that inevitably will tire of the wait and move on to other games, or other scenes within New Eden.

The CSM notes do NOT describe a FW that reflects where we - the dedicated community who has invested EVERYTHING to keeping it alive when CCP abandoned it - want it to go. But that does not mean we are not making progress. Before we could ever hope to share our vision, we had to prove that Faction Warfare is desperately broken (mechanically), and we've accomplished that. We had to prove that fixing Faction Warfare will mean something to the rest of the game as well - we've accomplished that. As many pointed out, a council seat will be the next necessary step in our march forward.

There is still hope, there is still time. This is a first pass, the current CSM will come and go, and we will have the opportunity to correct the course - if everyone pitches in and keeps working together across all factions. Let the last year teach us all that change is possible, and that CCP does listen to its players.

I wouldn't keep posting day, after day, after day, If I really thought that the vision we read in the notes is really going to come to pass despite our attempts at intervention. If we give up now though, and call it day - I guarantee it will be.

The CSM telling CCP to use FW as a test bed for null is not at all surprising to me tbh.

Why doesn't FW have a full representative on the CSM anyways?

Greetings, I am a FW player for about two years and I'd like to bring to the attention of the CSM/CCP some of the concerns of the FW community has voiced. First and foremost I would like to state that faction war players enjoy the variety faction war has to offer. You can hop into a destroyer and plex one day and a few hours later be participating in a battleship on battleship fight with caps, logi, etc. You can solo, you can blob. FW offers an environment for all types of players.

Faction war in itself is not fundamentally broken. There is a reason why players have been participating in FW, despite years of neglect. I hope CCP keeps the small gang elements in place (plexing) while still having mechanics for larger fleets to fight over (moons, poses, bunker busts, whatever).

CCP/CSM wanted to inject drama, spying, metagaming, etc into faction war. There already is spying, some metagaming, some drama between corps within a militia. All you need is to inject some things to fight over (station rights, moons, taxes, whatever) and you will see a lot more of all of this. This proposed "in game election" idea for militia leaders is ********. There, I said it. It's a ******** idea. What are the prequisites for someone to be en eligible voter for such a leader? Simply a member of a militia? If that is the case you will see the goons or another large alliance just make/move alts into faction war on election day and vote in one of their alts to siphon tax isk to their alliance and there isn't a damned thing the FW community could do about it. It becomes a numbers game, a matter of population, and not about deception or people making the mistake of trusting you. "Meta"-gaming like this is just ********. Meta gaming should be about actually having to earn the trust of those you're attempting to infiltrate, and those who you're attempting to infiltrate make the mistake of actually trusting you. I would rather be done in by a classy PL spy by making the mistake of trusting them, than having the unwashed masses of goonswarm makes alts and vote in a mittens alt on election day with this "in-game election" mechanic that was proposed. Do not implement this. You are taking out player choice and the consequences of those choices if you implement this. Faction war players won't have a choice who is "their leader". Pursue a different route if you think there should be some sort of "leadership" within a militia. Perhaps it could be what corp/alliance has the most "victory points" (whoever defends a militias systems/captures systems for your militia the best) within a militia over a recent time period to become an executor corp or bid for station tax rights or whatever. There are better ways to go about this. Meta gaming in eve should be about trust and the betrayal of that trust. It's about betrayal. Having a bigger entity make alts and join your militia (which militias cannot control who joins them) and then elect a puppet leader is a complete contradiction of what meta gaming in EvE is to me.


All that being said, I hope CCP and the CSM listen to the faction war community before moving forward. There should be consequence of losing systems, and rewards for gaining them, but please listen to the FW community. We are not in nullsec for a reason. The FW community does not want FW to become lowsec. Do not homogenize EvE. You can look at the following thread for feedback regarding what the FW community thinks about the recent CSM summit minutes and some of the proposed ideas here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=58742&find=unread a lot of the players feel that CCP and the CSM is out of touch with the faction war community.

All of this being said I (and the FW community) are greatly appreciative that faction war is getting iterated upon. I don't want to sound like a completely whiny ***** but please, we ask that you guys get "in touch" with the faction war community before moving foward. Get feedback that isn't just the CSM. Get in touch with this community. Do not repeat the mistakes of the past. I personally would like it if a dev would take the time to post on the above linked thread, even if it's just a "hey, we're listening" one liner. It would be greatly appreciated by the FW community. Thank you for your time.


-Super Chair

Was definitely a good letter, hope it helps get their attention.

Just one slight typo I saw (you meant nullsec, right?)

You don't get it do you. We are supposed to be the ones that keep the enemy out of our highsec. Not the Navy. That is what a militia is and does. Reliance on NPCs is why cal mil is so sad to begin with.

As far as fliping stations,
I can see where locking a station down and cant get any of your stuff would be bad for fw.

I would like to see if the station / system is flipped you would lose access to the agent and perhaps if you undock or go to dock timer is increased say 2 minutes to dock for the opposing side.

All the talk about FW vs. Null in the CSM thread made me think about the only EHP grind we have and the eradication of same. Never liked the bunker-bust as it has not once in my time actually given the fights it was meant to and represents what I consider a failed development stratagem (EHP grind).

Two thoughts, one NPC based and one Player based.

1. Replace bunker with a Sleeper AI Carrier taskforce, the navy's last attempt at saving face after failing so hard in the plexes.
- Announce system vulnerability (Navy are saps, so think of it as a distress call) to holding side.
Can still blitz it but at much higher risk. Becomes a collaborate effort and should take longer than the 5-10 minutes that bunkers last these days so a defense has time to form.

2. Remove bunker; add three hour vulnerable period before system automatically flips (Why three you ask?).
- Announce system vulnerability (Navy are saps, so think of it as a distress call) to holding side.
No blitzing possible, attacker instead has the arduous task of preventing the enemy from taking a plex for what is a significant amount of time .. should yield some ferocious plex fights.

Which is better .. personally see the first as an ideal way of introducing rewards for flips (loot) but the second brings the pew which to me is reward in itself.

PS: Oh dear. Seem to have bumped the thread .. for shame!